munte.myforum.ro

Admin · Administrator Data inscrierii: 02/Aug/2006 Mesaje: 50

Pentru ca a venit zapada m-am gandit ca e bine sa aflam mai numeroase informatii despre avalanse.

[url]http://alpinet.org/main/articole/show_ro_t_indrumar-avalanse_id_1270.html[/url]

[url]http://www.universitateacluj.clubulalpinroman.org/despre_avalanse.htm[/url]

alexutza88 · Trimis: 03/11/2006 21:20 Titlul subiectului:

cred ca sunt f utile info.. este f important sa nu mergem pe trasee inchise de salvamont sau, daca o facem sa fim f bine pregatiti si echipati
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Conny · Trimis: 20/12/2006 14:50 Titlul subiectului:

zi-mi si mie unde e zapada...
Sunt super utile aceste informatii, dar sunte de parere ca si vremea conteaza foarte mult cand e vb de o plecare pe zapada .
Asteptam sa ninga... pentru ture si pentru sport
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Try to reach my soul so deep
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alexutza88 · Trimis: 22/12/2006 17:55 Titlul subiectului:

o sa vina si vremea noastra, sa ninga calumea pe munte... pana acum am prins întâia zapada acum vreo 2 luni si pana am coborat aproape se topise
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dragostea e nebunia inteleptului si intelepciunea nebunului

ATITUDINE · Trimis: 14/01/2007 14:24 Titlul subiectului:

Obiect preluat de pe Alpinet

Articol de sezon (engleza) - sa inoti in avalansa nu e bine:

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No swimming: Dale Atkins says much of what you know about surviving an
avalanche is wrong

By Clay Evans (Contact)

Friday, January 12, 2007

Dale Atkins at the site of a 2005 avalanche in Brown's Gulch. Long an
avalanche forecaster for the Colorado Avalanche Information Center in
Boulder, Atkins now has his own avalanche consulting business in Boulder.

For a century and a half, ever since a Swiss writer first described the
technique in 1864, the message has been the same: If caught in an avalanche,
start swimming.

Makes sense. After all, the human body is more dense than snow, so it will
have a tendency to sink - right? And as the Wiki How Web site advises, "Try
to stay afloat by using a swimming motion.... As the avalanche slows down,
quickly try to get yourself to the surface before the snow settles."

Sure. If you want to suffocate.

Boulder's Dale Atkins, for nearly two decades the top forecaster at the
Colorado Avalanche Information Center in Boulder and one of the world's top
avalanche experts, says swimming kills more people than it saves.

Atkins acknowledges that there are anecdotal tales of swimming to survive an
avalanche, but "the problem is, it's a very biased sample," he says with a
pleasant smile. "They're all survivors."

In fact, says Atkins, who has studied avalanches all over the world and is
now an avalanche consultant after leaving CAIC last year, much "common
sense" about surviving avalanches is wrong.

And when Atkins speaks, people in the avalanche business listen.

"He has done so much with thinking about accidents, investigation, doing
research, what he says carries a lot of weight," says Spencer Logan, a
forecaster at CAIC.

The wiki entry above is a perfect example of avalanche misinformation.

Error No. 1: Yes, the human body is more dense than snow (technically,
Atkins says, we're talking about specific weight, which takes gravity into
account, not density) but that doesn't mean you sink in an avalanche.

"What we've done with being in an avalanche is treat it like water," says
Atkins, 45. "The problem is, an avalanche is not water. It has a fluidized
state, but it's not a liquid. It's a solid. It's actually a granular flow."

And granular flows behave very differently from liquids: Smaller "particles"
- of whatever: rocks, cereal, snow clumps - settle toward the bottom, while
larger particles move toward the surface.

"A person is like a really big particle, and rises to the top," says Atkins,
who grew up in Evergreen and first joined an alpine rescue team at 13,
describing the principle of "inverse segregation."

Don't believe him? Check out your cereal box or next bag of chips: The
crumbs sift to the bottom, while the biggest pieces stay on top; he also
calls this the "Brazil nut effect," because smaller nuts sink to the bottom
of the bowl.

The stats are on Atkins' side: Since 1975, some 1, 748 people have been
caught in American avalanches, but only 309, or roughly 18 percent, were
buried.

"And we only hear about serious accidents," he says. "Probably twice that
many people have been caught, but we probably hear of nearly all the
burials. So the actual burial number might be only 10 percent."

Error No. 2: The classic advice about "swimming" actually may kill more
avalanche victims than it saves. The most important thing to do if caught in
an avalanche is maintain a breathing space around your mouth. But if your
hands are doing the breaststroke, you can't do that.

"All these people I've dug out, rescues I've been involved in, pictures I've
seen, their hands aren't near their faces," Atkins says.

Error No. 3: Advice to wait until "the avalanche slows" to put your hands to
your face, Atkins says, is a recipe for death if you are unlucky enough to
be buried.

"That may be physically impossible because of what happens. In a matter of a
second or two, an avalanche can slow, stop, and all those clumps of snow
interlock. As soon as that happens, you go from a fluidized flow to a solid
block," he says. "You can't get your hands to your face."

Logan still advises "fighting like hell" when an avalanche clearly is still
moving, then still protect an air space and "ball up," as long as you are in
control. But he acknowledges that sometimes, "there's no way you can be in
control," and Atkins says don't bother swimming at all once you've cast off
your ski poles, ice ax or other "anchors."

Atkins realizes his advice goes against 150 years of avalanche wisdom, but
as a long-time member of Colorado's Alpine Rescue Group (which helped dig
out cars buried in the Jan. 6 avalanche on Berthoud Pass), former Loveland
ski patroller, member of the International Commission for Alpine Rescue, and
co-author of "The Snowy Torrents," Vol. 4, which details every American
avalanche from 1980 to 1986 (Vol. 5, now in process, will cover 1987 to
2000), he knows of what he speaks.

And sometimes, he says, conventional wisdom needs to be shaken up.

"Think of bloodletting. Sometimes it may have worked.... The logic was,
something 'bad' needed to be let out of the body. And if it didn't work, the
physician or barber or surgeon just said, 'We tried everything, they were
too sick, their time was up,'" Atkins says. "That's sort of what we've done
with being stuck in an avalanche. The logic is to treat an avalanche like
water.... But for all the 150 years of saying 'swim,' there is no
statistical evidence that it works. It's become a kind of conventional
wisdom. The logic is sound, but the premise is wrong."

Contact Clay Evans at (303) 473-1352 or evansc@dailycamera.com.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/jan/12/dale-atkins-says-much-of-what-yo
u-know-about-an/

--- cut ---

Catalin

WOLF · Trimis: 13/06/2007 20:55 Titlul subiectului:

Stiu ca e vara, dar probabil ca e bine sa ne pregatim din timp. :P
Cartea este scrisa de Mihai Tãnase, autorul seriei de articole de pe alpinet numita "De-ale lui Tãnase". A aparut la editura Constant, Sibiu si a fost lansata, daca nu ma insel, in decembrie 2006. Pe montrek.ro costa 8 lei.
Cateva detalii despre autor: http://www.carpati.org/profil/mihai.telemark/892/

La munte...IARNA La munte...IARNA

pantoficustil · Tentat Data inscrierii: 12/Oct/2011 Mesaje: 58

Nu stiat atatea despre avalanse...mersii... :-D

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